tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post5692357252396065602..comments2024-03-10T01:57:38.017-08:00Comments on NorCal Cazadora: Killing the barn rabbit: Unsporting, unethical or highly moral?Holly Heyserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-90270751498388973632010-08-09T08:49:01.385-07:002010-08-09T08:49:01.385-07:00Fair enough, Matt.
I suppose I should also note t...Fair enough, Matt.<br /><br />I suppose I should also note that if I had a dog to maintain, I'd hunt/shoot planted birds all the time without qualms, and I would very much consider it training/maintenance. But I don't, so when I go on a planted-bird hunt, it's because I want to hunt. My feelings about this are very much personal, not something I want to force on others.Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-11133003141167867392010-08-09T05:11:05.936-07:002010-08-09T05:11:05.936-07:00Holly I'm not suggesting that semantics makes ...Holly I'm not suggesting that semantics makes a thing acceptable. But accuracy is important. Shooting and hunting are different (though sometimes related) activities and deserve different names. <br /><br />I hear your point about the perspective of the prey---the frog dies in earnest! But in this case planted birds (in falconry we call them "baggies" because they come from a Matt Mullenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198069782508775543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-56989624326686648022010-08-09T04:48:41.646-07:002010-08-09T04:48:41.646-07:00Preserve "hunts" for fat birds are absol...Preserve "hunts" for fat birds are absolutely SHOOTS, as one commentor noted. I participate in said shoots, but dread for anyone to call it a hunt, which it is not (except for the dogs). Shooting your farm rabbit (who may be accustomed to stealing chicken food, or whatever) is the same. It was shot - legally. It was not hunted. And that's OK, if the point was to get food to eat, Kirk Mantayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556560258304201823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-70193686240672829412010-08-08T20:43:26.611-07:002010-08-08T20:43:26.611-07:00I understand that, but it doesn't work for me ...I understand that, but it doesn't work for me because my ethics are based on the <em>animal's</em> experience (has it had the chance to behave like prey, not like an object with none of the faculties required to elude predators), not the nomenclature used to describe <em>my</em> experience. To me, saying something is acceptable when we call it a "shoot" and not acceptable when Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-41245850595012058462010-08-08T18:59:13.123-07:002010-08-08T18:59:13.123-07:00>>"planted-bird hunts."
We could ...>>"planted-bird hunts."<br /><br />We could probably take this thread into another post, but I'd suggest we call those "shoots" as the English do. It's a useful distinction.Matt Mullenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198069782508775543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-90957478029396392142010-08-08T10:50:46.681-07:002010-08-08T10:50:46.681-07:00Thanks, Chas and ML (belatedly - I lost track of t...Thanks, Chas and ML (belatedly - I lost track of things on a field trip to Vegas this week).<br /><br />And Mr. S, I'm not sure this shot is going to be one that troubles me for life, though I'm pretty sure I'll be thinking about it for a long time.<br /><br />But I do have a shot that I'd love to take back, a shot I knew was wrong instantly and uniquivocally: It was a Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-29661842430684948152010-08-05T13:50:10.617-07:002010-08-05T13:50:10.617-07:00I think every hunter has at least one shot that th...I think every hunter has at least one shot that they feel conflicted over. Here's mine: When I was 17, I was hunting quail about 25 miles from Placerville, CA. I was stalking, and came right up on a covey. In a very unsporting way, I ground fired. My single shot took 5 birds. I was meat hunting, but still, all these years later, I feel bad about the shot. It's one I wish I could Mr. Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-58560139787981142942010-08-05T13:37:11.227-07:002010-08-05T13:37:11.227-07:00While i didn't sleep through ethics class. I w...While i didn't sleep through ethics class. I would have done just as you did.MLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-73495896816288087142010-08-04T08:53:10.583-07:002010-08-04T08:53:10.583-07:00I agree with Boyfriend too. You were hunting rabbi...I agree with Boyfriend too. You were hunting rabbits. You saw a rabbit. You shot it.<br /><br />The first rabbit I ever killed, while out with Dad and his friends, was sitting still, and that was considered just fine by all the group.<br /><br />WV: duckisop. I am hoping for some duckisops this winter.Chas S. Cliftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00923547685265741325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-18210650778770579332010-07-27T11:14:30.504-07:002010-07-27T11:14:30.504-07:00Ingrid said, "Would that all humans (let alon...Ingrid said, "Would that all humans (let alone all hunters or non-hunters) engaged with such respect."<br /><br />Amen to that.Tovar@AMindfulCarnivorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02786679920725797712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-35774040773083136702010-07-27T01:42:45.404-07:002010-07-27T01:42:45.404-07:00Matt, thanks for chiming in. One thing I never do ...Matt, thanks for chiming in. One thing I never do is take killing anything less than seriously.<br /><br />Ingrid, if you ate meat at all, I'd invite you to hunt with me, because you'd have no moral reason not to try it and find out yourself what goes on in your head when you hunt.<br /><br />I've taken a lot of stabs at this, but I'll try another one now: Hunting helps connect meHolly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-1411270695547014492010-07-26T22:24:22.056-07:002010-07-26T22:24:22.056-07:00Holly, you said, "I don't begrudge you yo...Holly, you said, "I don't begrudge you your feelings at all, because I recognize my feelings - not my actions - are much harder to explain!"<br /><br />I realize they are hard to explain. And, I actually wish you could explain your feelings, because I grapple with that dichotomy when I see it in others. I'd like to understand better. To date, I haven't had a good grasp of Ingridnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-15884714081529115892010-07-26T18:53:04.928-07:002010-07-26T18:53:04.928-07:00I wish I had time to read more than a few posts on...I wish I had time to read more than a few posts on this. Great topic--definitely worth th trouble to argue. I will just weigh in that "while boys throw stones in sport, the frog dies in earnest."<br /><br />Usually that old saw is trotted out in opposition of hunting (or of boys), but my point (as a hunter--and a boy) is that the sport makes no difference to the rabbit.<br /><br />Matt Mullenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198069782508775543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-2744276422000899832010-07-26T18:52:46.390-07:002010-07-26T18:52:46.390-07:00I wish I had time to read more than a few posts on...I wish I had time to read more than a few posts on this. Great topic--definitely worth th trouble to argue. I will just weigh in that "while boys throw stones in sport, the frog dies in earnest."<br /><br />Usually that old saw is trotted out in opposition of hunting (or of boys), but my point (as a hunter--and a boy) is that the sport makes no difference to the rabbit.<br /><br />Matt Mullenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198069782508775543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-33323978906414695922010-07-26T11:26:43.037-07:002010-07-26T11:26:43.037-07:00Wow, I chased this one around the corner and lost ...Wow, I chased this one around the corner and lost sight of it. Albert's voice is a welcome one to "hear" again. <br /><br />As to the hunter/gatherers and nomadism... Josh, the extinction of large mammals is still being bounced around. Hypothesis or theory, it's just a possibility. I don't totally buy it, by the way. I think there were more factors than one, as there Philliphttp://www.hog-blog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-91865942803727417172010-07-26T02:39:14.870-07:002010-07-26T02:39:14.870-07:00On of the things that is most difficult for me to ...On of the things that is most difficult for me to explain is the dichotomy of animal lover and animal killer.<br /><br />If I was to find an injured deer, let's say it was shot in the leg and somehow I managed to have it in my possession, if I thought I could fix it up and let it go, I would. I might shoot it next season if I didn't recognise it, but for now it would be under my care and Albert A Raschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431765456546701021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-49861061013990948892010-07-25T20:42:23.815-07:002010-07-25T20:42:23.815-07:00Great post! At first I was thinking you were using...Great post! At first I was thinking you were using a .22 as in California, you're allowed to for rabbits and non-game species, which farm pigeons fit into, but not legal to do the same with wild bandtail pigeons. This to me is a sad, as I have yet to find anyone to do less damage to meat than someone shooting game in the head with one well-placed shot with a scoped .22 rifle. Personally, I Cork@Cork'sOutdoorshttp://corksoutdoors.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-67971940551993478162010-07-25T20:13:11.101-07:002010-07-25T20:13:11.101-07:00The compartmentalizing hunters do is just a much, ...The compartmentalizing hunters do is just a much, much more aware version of the compartmentalizing done by most meat-eaters who don't farm or hunt: Some animals are dear friends, others we eat.<br /><br />And I do totally relate to where you come from, Ingrid, because I deeply love animals. The difference is that you can't reconcile loving and killing/eating, and I can. I don't Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-68133566625463462202010-07-25T14:40:38.758-07:002010-07-25T14:40:38.758-07:00. . . you said two things that I love: Including a...<i>. . . you said two things that I love: Including an animal in your family group changes the rules. And I'm sure the exact same could be said of people.</i><br /><br />This comment (by Holly and Albert) also illustrates why the perspective of a wildlife volunteer or rescuer is different from that of a hunter. Although I can't stress enough that wildlife workers do everything to avoid Ingridhttp://www.thefreequark.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-81572558383151333342010-07-25T07:33:35.282-07:002010-07-25T07:33:35.282-07:00My take on this, though I don't have enough ti...My take on this, though I don't have enough time to read all the comments, is simple: You made a clean, efficient kill on the animal you were seeking; no harm done!<br /><br />I really feel like you are reading too far into it. Nothing that you did was wrong. In fact, it was legal, humane, and completely right.<br /><br />In the same situation, I would not have hesitated to take the shot SimplyOutdoorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14074585345161430068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-170721842070223542010-07-25T05:36:41.243-07:002010-07-25T05:36:41.243-07:00Dude, that is an INCREDIBLY lucid comment. Perhaps...Dude, that is an INCREDIBLY lucid comment. Perhaps artillery is just the background your writer's soul has been waiting for? Wait, no, I just know someone who got out of Afghanistan; I'm guessing NOT.<br /><br />But yeah, you said two things that I love: Including an animal in your family group changes the rules. And I'm sure the exact same could be said of people.<br /><br />And Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-14261925488964396202010-07-25T03:20:13.456-07:002010-07-25T03:20:13.456-07:00As usual, I am late in the game... But I am half w...As usual, I am late in the game... But I am half way around the world!<br /><br />I'm going to be all over the place on this because it's tough blogging with that artillery piece going off every four five minutes...<br /><br />If primitive man drove some animals into extinction, good on him I guess. If I was hungry enough, I would eat a snow leopard... Well maybe not, someone would likelyAlbert A Raschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431765456546701021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-71441027493690344092010-07-23T18:35:18.748-07:002010-07-23T18:35:18.748-07:00Dude. You might not want to admit publicly that yo...Dude. You might not want to admit publicly that you know that... ;-)Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-76422182650685018642010-07-23T16:59:12.016-07:002010-07-23T16:59:12.016-07:00Or a periodic table! That's the rave among th...Or a periodic table! That's the rave among the sci-fi geeky crowd (Periodic Table of Star Wars, of superpowers, etc.)... or, uhm, so I've heard...<br /><br />Holly, that's a fascinating note about nomadism. I live close enough, and still within my habitat, to consider myself local, though I know I'm on the edge (probably three days walk, with the herd, from my home).Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409883521642115031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-6931838789261306342010-07-23T15:11:37.996-07:002010-07-23T15:11:37.996-07:00We're going to need a flow-chart any minute he...We're going to need a flow-chart any minute here. If I had nothing better to do, I'd make one for shits and giggles, but alas, I am ever so busy. When I'm not busy commenting. LOLHolly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.com