tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post4911157786871213504..comments2024-03-10T01:57:38.017-08:00Comments on NorCal Cazadora: Mother's Day, death & the quest for insightHolly Heyserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-69106441383537585022009-06-28T22:55:53.308-07:002009-06-28T22:55:53.308-07:00Hey Hutch, welcome back!
I knew I could count on ...Hey Hutch, welcome back!<br /><br />I knew I could count on you to come back and portray more accurately your thoughts and your positions. I hope it didn't pain you too much to see yourself used <em>in absentia</em> as a foil.<br /><br />I agree with much of what you say - especially about the intelligence, social structure and emotions of animals. What I keep coming back to, though, is that Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-78267782740942514742009-06-28T21:25:07.804-07:002009-06-28T21:25:07.804-07:00PART III
I regularly visit a rehabilitated wood d...<b>PART III</b><br /><br />I regularly visit a rehabilitated wood duck who, sadly, was injured and too habituated to return to the wild. She talks to you. She responds. She understands many words and recognizes certain individuals whom she approaches. She has nurtured other injured ducks who've been brought into her enclosure. I can give you countless examples of the animals I've held, hutchinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-55672276577900060962009-06-28T21:23:39.351-07:002009-06-28T21:23:39.351-07:00PART II
I don't know (and neither does anyone...<b>PART II</b><br /><br />I don't know (and neither does anyone else, if they're to be honest) what level of consciousness most non-human animals possess. Given that ideas formerly held as scientific "truths" are disproved regularly as the time continuum progresses, I will err on the side of assuming some semblance of consciousness. But even if that weren't true, I cannot hutchinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-26837392566691334462009-06-28T21:19:31.947-07:002009-06-28T21:19:31.947-07:00PART 1 . . .
I can't fully quantify the disp...<b>PART 1 . . . </b><br /><br />I can't fully quantify the disparity in how you might feel versus how I feel (and believe) without engaging a treatise. And the time for discussion on this post has long past, I realize.<br /><br />I will just say that what you describe as empathy doesn't go far enough to encapsulate the depth of what people like me feel and know about the non-humans with hutchinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-31170720023975038792009-05-29T05:22:30.050-07:002009-05-29T05:22:30.050-07:00I'm late to the discussion here so I'll just stop ...I'm late to the discussion here so I'll just stop for a moment to say - excellent post and discussion following. That's one reason I like your blog so much Holly - it encourages me to really think, not just to do.Blessedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00029860506890356566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-64264685438799257032009-05-21T07:54:47.197-07:002009-05-21T07:54:47.197-07:00http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090521/video/vod-the-...http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090521/video/vod-the-cutest-thing-ever-puppy-dog-adop-f1a0497.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-57840978480962780442009-05-20T22:40:32.866-07:002009-05-20T22:40:32.866-07:00You guys have taken this to a new and interesting ...You guys have taken this to a new and interesting realm... <br /><br />Personally, while I recognize that us humans have this ridiculously over-developed sense of empathy, at the same time we have an amazing ability to rationalize our behavior, I still think we are nothing more than animals... we are NOT worth more than many sparrows. We are worth exactly the same.<br /><br />The difference is Philliphttp://www.hog-blog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-57516063094698727482009-05-20T08:39:38.228-07:002009-05-20T08:39:38.228-07:00Oh, how far hunting has fallen that someone wouldn...Oh, how far hunting has fallen that someone wouldn't understand the difference between punching it to hit a squirrel (meanness, sadism, cruelty) and shooting an animal to eat it (feeding your family). I believe that really is at the root of our image problem - people are so removed from food acquisition that they can ask a question like in all innocence.<br /><br />Interestingly enough, I was Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-26948456882351183262009-05-20T04:37:02.546-07:002009-05-20T04:37:02.546-07:00I was just having this same conversation with a co...I was just having this same conversation with a co-worker yesterday. She was asking he how hunting differs from punching the gas to run over a squirrel. She isn't against hunting. She, along with many other people, including myself, was just trying to grasp how we can kill one minute, and help an animal the next. It really is hard to explain.<br /><br />I think you did an excellent job at SimplyOutdoorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14074585345161430068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-91382265961379027602009-05-19T16:22:08.249-07:002009-05-19T16:22:08.249-07:00I think that to say, of humans, 'we are animals' i...I think that to say, of humans, 'we are animals' is to make a statement that comes in a parcel with a large pile of unstated presuppositions bundled in there as well. Personally, I think that if an effort is made to unpick the additional extras to this kind of idea then it starts to look rather less solid than it might at first appear. It <I>appears</I> unarguable, of course. But I think it Hubert Huberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11648804733877209296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-46453259738180491882009-05-19T11:36:00.000-07:002009-05-19T11:36:00.000-07:00Ken, I know this is cliche', but Aldo Leopold real...Ken, I know this is cliche', but Aldo Leopold really convinced me to consider the distinctions. He said, in effect, that there is something new under the Sun, that is: Our compassion for entire species. Humans didn't mourn the passing of the dodo when it happened, but by the time of the passenger pigeon, we were saddened by the loss of an entire species. Leopold saw this as a part of our Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409883521642115031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-32663567958351523092009-05-19T09:48:00.000-07:002009-05-19T09:48:00.000-07:00I'm of two minds about the issue that Hubert Huber...I'm of two minds about the issue that Hubert Hubert brought up.<br /><br />On the one hand, hunting has brought me to the understanding that <EM>we are animals</EM>, albeit animals with really big brains. When animals do something clever, I don't think, "Wow, they're just like us." I realize, "Wow, all of us animals have that thing in common."<br /><br />On the other hand, I have zero problem Holly Heyserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134909592916671876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-70851352358888394692009-05-19T09:09:00.000-07:002009-05-19T09:09:00.000-07:00I think I have to question Hubert Hubert's positi...I think I have to question Hubert Hubert's position a little bit. To me it has always seemed that theologians, philosophers and scientists make a conceptual error when they try so hard to separate humans from the rest of nature. Man is the only animal who yada yada yada. How do we know that? We don't. It's an assumption. <br /><br />We live, and to sustain this, we must kill other things that Ken and Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853986342327863440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-29102676699502791532009-05-18T12:38:00.000-07:002009-05-18T12:38:00.000-07:00Those of us who have come to hunting as you and I ...Those of us who have come to hunting as you and I have, need to remember that we killed and ate animals before. It's just that we paid other people to do it for us, in part so we didn't have to deal with the GREAT SADNESS of death.<br /><br />Here we embrace the grief and loss of sweet life with the joy of success and the food that is life. They are one. Sometimes my spirit seems too small to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-5813466930341884092009-05-17T22:25:00.000-07:002009-05-17T22:25:00.000-07:00Wonderful stuff Holly.
We don't often write about...Wonderful stuff Holly.<br /><br />We don't often write about the emotions hunting brings up from within. I know that I go to great lengths to keep from causing suffering- even within the act of killing game. Funny I can hunt without much qualm but a cattle slaughterhouse fills me with all kinds of ill feelings. <br /><br />Very compelling and thought provoking piece.hodgemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632228055641750343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-1072325668543639922009-05-17T18:42:00.000-07:002009-05-17T18:42:00.000-07:00Hubert, though I'll disagree with you on the notio...Hubert, though I'll disagree with you on the notion of suffering, I completely believe and agree with you about the notion of seeking to cause pain and also the notion of the distinction between humans and other animals. Great stuff.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409883521642115031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-85231174621556215202009-05-17T07:17:00.000-07:002009-05-17T07:17:00.000-07:00All of us bloggers are humans who suffer and think...All of us bloggers are humans who suffer and think and write and love and do all the stuff that humans do (or aspire to, at any rate). I think it's a human thing to empathise - when it's lacking you have the short recipe for a bloodbath-ready sociopath. <br /><br />I do think, however, that we can fall into a rather limiting contradiction when we extend to animals the care that it is only really Hubert Huberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11648804733877209296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-87477360802802495432009-05-16T21:01:00.000-07:002009-05-16T21:01:00.000-07:00Great post. I often think about this, too, which ...Great post. I often think about this, too, which may be a part of my hesitance when I shoot (ask boyfriend), but it isn't a hesitance borne of the consciousness, it comes from the awe I feel when I first see prey; call it buck fever (or snipe fever, or duck fever, etc.). <br /><br />The "logic" behind comparing deaths and trying to understand it in relation to the rest of life is also borne of Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409883521642115031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5478505267875308908.post-3899751062379680282009-05-16T12:29:00.000-07:002009-05-16T12:29:00.000-07:00Holly,
A thoughtful and thought provoking essay a...Holly,<br /><br />A thoughtful and thought provoking essay as usual. I would like to give it more thought and perhaps write something along a similar vein.<br /><br />I get Hutch's empathy. I feel it to. All good hunters do too. Whether they acknowledge it with thought, or quickly bury it or brush it aside, is an individual response. Personally, I give it a respectful moment to acknowledge what Albert A Raschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431765456546701021noreply@blogger.com